Monday, March 05, 2007

The God Placebo

- participants in the infinite debate please scroll down
- readers that have arrived at this blog with an interest in BiPolar Disorder – don’t fear. This last week has just been a little diversion into hypometaphysics, but the daily grind will soon return.

In yesterdays comments Raine said:

“I came to the conclusions that mankind has a need for "god"… “A superior being, a reason for existence, accountability, hope.... wether God exists and in what form is irrelevant.”

Exactly. Thanks for GETTING IT Raine. So often when I chant my “God is irrelevant” mantra, people get their backs up. They seem to think I am some hell-bent atheist at best, or maybe even Satanic at worst. What they fail to see is that I am not attacking FAITH. Yeah, faith is a very strong power in millions of people’s lives around the world. Without their faith life would be unbearable. But it’s exactly their FAITH that empowers them not “God”.

Let’s say for a moment that God DOES NOT exist. Who is better off? The person who erroneously clutches onto an undying faith in God that gives them strength, peace and happiness? Or the genius who knows the truth about God’s non-existence, and lives in angst, despair and meaninglessness?

So: Whether you’re Catholic, Muslim, Hindu or a Pavlovian, if your faith is working for you – you’re on the right path. Don’t even question whether your God exists or not. It is irrevlevant. Yeah maybe it’s just a placebo effect. But if it cures you. SO FREAKING WHAT??


And now onto the infinitely regressing infinity argument:


To get up to infinite speed on this debate I’d suggest you go here (first) and here (second)

Willbefine very shrewdly pointed out the Moebius Strip. Not sure if you noticed WBF, but the pic I had in my post yesterday was in fact a Moebius Strip, albeit a pretty sophisticated one. So here’s a more simple rendition.

The Moebius strip (from which, incidentally the mathematical symbol of infinity borrows it’s shape) is really just a sleight of hand. It satisfies the “no beginning, no end” requirement of infinity but it fails to address any quantative quality of infinity. It is simply a geometric representation of infinity, but does not prove or disprove real infinity.

And just as you say Infinity might be finite, I propose, that on a quantative level Finity always contains Infinity. Here goes:

Suppose we take a “finite” amount of time – 24 hours lets say. How much time is contained therein? 24 hours you say. Ah, but hours is simply a man-made unit of measurement. What about if we divide the time into minutes, seconds, milliseconds. Still finite right. But let’s carry on, lets divide the milliseconds into a million parts, and those million parts into another million parts. No matter how small those parts – they are still “quantities of time” right? And where does it end? Every part we cut up, we can cut into more, on, and on, ad infinitum.

And there you saw it: BPG’s INFINITY withIN FINITY.

To Amanda and z0tl : You guys have got a totally irrational God. I can live with that. But you’re barking up the wrong tree. Throw an H into the middle of your pie, and then you’re really talking divinity. Phi - The divine proportion.

Lemme tell you a little secret. Saint John said : “in the beginning was the word”. But “word” is just our English translation. The original term used by said John was in fact “logos”, which has a myriad of meanings. One such meaning can be clued from “logarithm”. Yeah, ratio.

“In the beginning was the Ratio”

And whilst we are in biblical lands it might be timeous to point out that the 666 number is also based on a ratio. 2 thirds. And guess what, like Pi and Phi, it also has no ending. Divide 2 by 3 and the 666s just carry on going. Maybe it’s fortunate that the devil is also irrelevant (even if he might be in the details)

James: The doing of non-doing, the knowledge on no-knowledge, stillness in motion. The Extreme Middle Path.

If everything is 100% different, then actually it’s 100% the same.

One Taste.

Kodeureum: Yep, I always knew you were a good Buddhist.

Joel: Where does infinity begin? Simple - in the end.

Lastly to z0tl (again): I’m really surprised that someone of your intelligence can buy into that amateur philosophical piece of crap you cited. Their argument for existence of foreknowledge is about as lame as your president’s intellect.

The future is ENTIRELY in our own hands

(and I’m not talking palmistry)


  1. Time waits for no man.... but to progress further with this infinite infinity debate.

    The man made measurement of time you have broken down into infinite numerical values. Is that however realistic at the quantum level? The finite limit is zero time not an infinite iterative regression. I am not a quantum physicist but it is theorised that an electron can be in 2 places at the same time. So perhaps zero time does exist. Time at both ends of the spectrum can have a finite limit.

    Breaking down anything to its smallest part there is always a finite limit. Even now they are using 20,000 tonne equipment to measure the tiniest quantum particles in CERN, Switzerland. Is there something smaller than these particles? Presently the only knowledge of these particles is in theoretical quantum physic equations. I can propose a theory based on BPG’s infinite regression that within each of these particles contains an alternative universe. Who is to say that I am wrong?

  2. Technical Web coding point. IE7 doesn't seem to like "if !supportEmptyParas]--> " this is only part of the code that is showing repeatedly in this last post, this comment section will not let me post the rest.

  3. are you talking about my belief in the link i threw at amanda? i haven't even read it, just googled for 'omniscient god incompatible with free will' and posted something to take her off my back.

    i believe photon is God, actually, in the context of this Universe, at least. quantum entanglement experiments clearly show that the primoridial photon who decided to say "let there be light" and big bang its ass [not unlike an amoeba] into many remains in fact entangled with all subsequent ones in existence. & we're all light and stuff, new agey bullshit jives with this Photon is God theory too.

    my beliefs, founded or unfounded in anything, change like the wind anyway, so bring me that apple PI and i'll bow down to it, then eat it promptly.

    when you meet the buddha, kill the buddha, eat the buddha & so forth...

    finally, when you say no matter what kind of faith you have, if it's strong, you'll be better off, you are correct.

    when you say the future is entirely in your hands, meh, that's just your fuzzy ego getting all arrogant.

    i try to stay away from rhetoric of the type "i make my own luck" or "no matter what comes i'll be able to deal with it" - i've noticed going around proclaiming such feel good about yourself triteness usually tends to cause the universe to throw shit in your direction until it bends you all out of shape and makes you regret the day you were born.

    but yeah, i dunno where you got the idea that i'm intelligent or knowledgeable for that matter, quite the opposite i am. tho always assholy!

  4. I think I need to practice a bit more before I can be tagged a good Buddhist, actually.

    While attending university I was supposed to be collaborating with my dancer girlfriend on an interdisciplinary sculpture/modern dance work. My room-mate often came home in the afternoon to find the two of us in bed together. She would keep to her side of our 1500 sq ft studio apartment and call out "What are you doing? I thought you were practicing." "We are," was our standard reply. "We're practicing safe sex."

    Now if Buddhism were only so much fun...

  5. So if we declare everything to be the beginning, there is no infinity or God.

    The trouble with conversations like this is that they contain an inherent factor of reductio ad absurdem.

  6. Relax people...don't get your underoo's in a twist. I'm perfectly aware that opinions are like a$$holes. :) I talk because I enjoy the conversation, and I certainly enjoyed this one, even though I'm severely underequiped for it.

    The way I see it, Infinite Logic, as I like to call it, must have predated what they call "Big Bang." Or obviously, as Joel pointed wouldn't be infinite. The creations? Yes, they are finite. They have to be.

    Imo, there is no reality, only perception. I do not care if this "infinite logic" exists or not. I can live with that. Nor do I need the approval of a middle-man - religion - for it. Why should I worship something I'm already a part of, anyway?

    As long as I try to live by the Golden Rule, (Ethic of reciprocity) I'm content. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. Feeling content about your choices and beliefs. Whatever they are.

    It's just a shame, that everyone's perceptions of reality cannot peacefully co-exist with one another...(Not a reference to our discussion, just the world in general.)

  7. oh hi
    this is fun
    i've had a nice read up :)
    quantum angst cum safe godding...

    time heals all belief

  8. i'll have you know the PI t-shirt has about [i've never counted them] but i think at least 1o,ooo digits really small in there, you know it's an ASCII printout of pi using the actual number - i'm accurate to the N-th decimal when i wear IT!

    i've seen PI, but don't remember the sign on his shaved head, was it a Y of sort:z?


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